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? >> and that's so true and so frustrating, and in the next class we'll look specifically at israel because we had the opportunity to go there. and how incredibly complex, because on one hand, from the zionist movement, israel is a secular state. but how do jewish people define their identity, they're so diverse? well, it's usually through religion. and so even within israel, that creates a tension. i mean, is it possible outside of the monastery for people to live up to the highest ideals that we want to look at in the ethical dimension. and here we're thinking about in judaism and christianity the ten commandments or the eightfold path in buddhism, or any of the ideals, the precepts in religions- but how hard it is. >> my friend who's jewish said that she feels that it's- the people in that area do get along well; it's just strictly the government and that that's causing- you know, they get along well in their private lives, but the other thing enters into it and causes the whole situation, the havoc and the killing and such. >> and i've experienced that personally in a number of instances,
much of the conflict is territorial. in israel, they want the land they feel god has given them, and then pakistanis want certain land, and yugoslavia, they want the land they had before world war ii. so a lot of it is territorial, and religion is shoved aside. >> you know, the nationalism- you know, you want to talk about "isms," but the rise of nationalism in our human cultural experience has been, you know, a two-edged sword, to say the least. and that brings up- it's a wonderful segue into our next class because we have a whole rather lengthy segment on how land in israel- sovereignty, identity, relationship- is linked to land. and for those of us who have grown up in the united states, this is very hard for us to realize- it's not something that's necessarily been challenged- but there, it's such a link. and we see people, you know, that form an identity around nationalism. now you see, maybe that's a very powerful way that people create identity and relationship. you see what's going on in the united states in the militia movement that we talked about and some of these pat
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